Special Edition: John Santora on WeWork’s Second Act (Live at CREtech)
You're listening to a special edition of First Draft Live. This week, I took the stage at CREtech in New York City to interview WeWork CEO, John Santora, live from the Javits Center in front of more than 3,000 real estate pros. WeWork's resurrection might be the most unlikely comeback in modern real estate. From bankruptcy court to profitability, $2,200,000,000 in revenue, and a membership roster that includes nearly half of the Fortune one hundred. This conversation actually dropped twenty four hours earlier for the first draft Insider Access subscriber.
Mark Bonner:That's our daily briefing for people who want to see what's next in commercial real estate before everyone else. You can join them now for $9 a month at bisnow.com/firstdraft. That's bisnow.com/firstdraft. Now let's head to the stage. So, John, I wanna start at the beginning here.
Mark Bonner:You know, few companies in commercial real estate or technology have lived this story as dramatic as WeWork. It went from explosive growth to a near mythical crash and then emerged from bankruptcy with a clean balance sheet and new leadership. You stepped in after, let's call it, he who shall not be named era. And today, the numbers tell a completely different story. You've been EBITDA positive since Q4 twenty twenty four.
Mark Bonner:You did over $2,200,000,000 in revenue last year. You have 550,000 members, including 47 of the Fortune 104,000 enterprise companies. Occupancy is 77% globally, above 80% in several markets, 90% in Midtown Manhattan, and 100% in places like Salesforce Tower in San Francisco and 1 Central Plaza in Dublin. There are literally no full floors left in New York right outside the doors of the Javits Center. You even brought your Latin America business fully back in house, and now you're preparing to roll out a slew of new products and partnerships in 2026.
Mark Bonner:In case you didn't know, WeWork isn't just a real estate story anymore. It's a global stress test for how tech and human behavior coexist at work. But let's start at the beginning. I don't think a lot of people know this, but you spent decades in commercial real estate, namely at Cushman and Wakefield, where I believe you spent forty seven years. Brokerage, global services, now you're CEO of one of the most storied brands in the industry.
Mark Bonner:But John, I want you to be honest with everyone in this room. When you first walked into WeWork, what was the energy in the room like?
John Santora:What was the?
Mark Bonner:What was the energy in the room like when you first walked into WeWork?
John Santora:Wow. So you used all my stats to start with, Mark, so I don't know what I'm gonna say during the the next forty five minutes, but energy in the room was a group that was just coming through bankruptcy, exiting bankruptcy, and as I said, as I talked to the group, you've got a lawyer on one shoulder and an accountant on the other shoulder and the whole decision making process. So it was from my perspective, it was to bring new life, new energy, put all that behind the team, and we had to move forward.
Mark Bonner:WeWork was always more than square feet though. It was a vibe. How do you rebuild a culture after a company's been through that kind of turbulence like this one has been?
John Santora:So I look at the team was really committed. They and you think about the process. They went through this two and a half year process of bankruptcy, right? The falling down, the coming out, and they needed a new start. But they were committed to the company and committed to the legacy of that that community vibe within our spaces.
John Santora:Our spaces and our community members were always so important and continue to be so important about the culture of WeWork and what our members see and feel each and every day.
Mark Bonner:I mean, look, you spent nearly fifty years in commercial real estate. You could have chosen so many safer options. This was one of the biggest messes in all of capitalism. Right? This was headline news all around the world.
Mark Bonner:Why did you want to go get into this mess? What did you see that everyone else didn't see at that moment in time?
John Santora:Well, first of all, yes, I've spent forty seven years in commercial real estate and when I looked at this and I reached out to Anad Jardy as he made the acquisition at a bankruptcy, I said to him, Anna, you you acquired a real estate firm. And he said to me, I thought it was a tech firm. I said, no, it's a real estate firm. So, I knew I was coming into the real estate firm and that's where I came from. Right?
John Santora:That's where I was grounded my entire career and all aspects of it. But the choice to do that, part of it was it's a turnaround story. And it was an exciting way as I look at it for the next phase of my career or potentially, you know, my last phase of my career. But I wanted to take that on because WeWork, the brand, and the flexible real estate market are so important to everyone out there, so important to the real estate industry, to heads of real estate, and to the future, I think, of the real estate business.
Mark Bonner:When you first walked in there though, I'm sure there was a lot of legacy thinking. There was a lot of infrastructure that was a legacy of the past. Perhaps you came in to the situation with your own legacy thinking. How did you cross that chasm?
John Santora:I think, yes, there's some legacy thinking. There was some legacy systems and ways of doing things. But I brought the team together and said this is a new day. And it's a new day and we need to go forward. We can't be thinking back.
John Santora:I don't want at this table, well, this is how we always did it, or this is the way we do it. It's how do we move forward? What's our what's our next step forward? How do we change things while still keeping the basic principle of community, of great space, and a flexible real estate.
Mark Bonner:Turning a profit was the big headline. The comeback story is real. We've all read the story. But what's the story underneath it? Where's the margin actually coming from right now?
Mark Bonner:Pricing, efficiencies, technology?
John Santora:No, it's not coming from technology. It's coming from our spaces, from the occupancy level, and where we are. So today, we're now in a position of strength. Right? We've restructured the portfolio.
John Santora:We have no debt. We're investing between 80 and a $100,000,000 in our space this year, a similar amount last year. We know that on a go forward basis, we need to spend that money to keep our spaces up to date, to continue to advance them forward, to bring in new technology, and to create to continue to create spaces that our members wanna be in the places they wanna be around the world.
Mark Bonner:So beyond the financial metrics, what are the user or product signals that tell you this model is working? Engagement, retention, is it expansion, is it traditional real estate, getting more square footage, new markets? Where's your eye at on that kind
John Santora:of stuff? Look, we handle from one to 10,000, or one to 1,000 are the same. But that entrepreneur, and the AI entrepreneur in many cases now around the world, needs that five seats, 10 seats as they're building up their company. We also handle, you know, spaces for the 50 seats, that small business in a market. And then we have the enterprise system.
John Santora:So we have 47, the Fortune 100, but we have so many firms that look to us to be their a part of their real estate platform. Today, a real estate head of real estate is looking at 20 to 30% of their portfolio flexible for lots of reasons, and we can go into that in a minute. So you have that enterprise model, and then the newest part of that is actually building out space and committing to a number of years for that enterprise client. So anybody who's spent any time here in New York has seen over the last year what we've done, the headlines around Amazon. So here in New York, as they return to office and around, you know, other parts of The United States and even other parts of the world.
John Santora:So a big portfolio. But we've continued to do that with a number of different enterprise clients. We just did one in Toronto for 25,000 square feet for a spin off of a pharma company. So we're working on that deal now. I was on the phone today with with two significant world financial banks around spaces, one here in The US and one over in Europe.
John Santora:So continuing to look at that model, we've got a couple that we've done in the West Coast. The other piece of that model is some of these firms, especially the spin off firms and some of the technology firms, need their capital to invest in their products, to invest in research. So we'll put the capital up on the space to build out the space.
Mark Bonner:You have so many other competitors today than the company had at its very beginning. Some people would say that WeWork invented coworking. Or it was, at least for most people, their first interaction with that sort of model. Fast forward to today, there are many more competitors on the playing field. Some are traditional competitors.
Mark Bonner:We won't get into those name brands. And then some of them are not traditional players who are trying to adopt coworking or flex into their business model. What makes WeWork different? Why should anyone sign a short term lease with WeWork when they could work with a galaxy of other competitors on the playing field?
John Santora:So, yeah, there is a there is a broad base of competitors, people that dabble in it, people that are committed to it from a big scale that are that have a broad platform. But for us, as I said, we're the only company that can handle that small user, and we're geared to that, but we can also handle the biggest in the world and find the space for them. The other thing is our market presence. Right? 37 countries around the world, 600 locations that are 45,000,000 square feet, 600 locations that are ours, another thousand here in The States that are alliance members, and an additional thousand internationally that'll be rolled out by the end of the year.
John Santora:So it's a broad based platform, and it's the consistent delivery in each and every one of those markets around the world. You know when you walk into a WeWork space, you're greeted by that community that community manager, that community associate. You see and feel the space, the welcoming that's there. That's a model that's very difficult to duplicate.
Mark Bonner:I mean, you know, lots of landlords are now saying flex is a must have, quote unquote, and everyone is racing to build their own version of what we were kicked off many, many years ago. What's your honest reaction when you see traditional owners trying to do what you do?
John Santora:I didn't hear that. Is your
Mark Bonner:honest reaction when you see traditional owners trying to do what you do?
John Santora:Well, when I look at the owners trying to do it now, a lot of owners, we work with them. We work with them. But, you know, and and and, you know, I understand and we all believe that a a significant piece of every major office building should be flexed. Some owners are trying to do it themselves, others have come to us to do it or some of the other players, and some have done it themselves and are now looking to us to take it to the next level. What we bring is a platform of, again, global members, 550,000 members.
John Santora:We bring an all access card, having that black card that you can access any one of our locations around the world. They will come and use the space if they're visiting New York, they're visiting or they're based in downtown, they're going to Midtown or wherever they may be. That owner is only capturing what's around that little piece of where his office building is.
Mark Bonner:You were talking about your enterprise clients. What are they asking for today that they perhaps weren't five years ago? And does it run on the lines of tech integrations or data transparency?
John Santora:Right. So what they're asking for is a couple of things. One, it's speed to market. We can do it faster, and when I was on the other side, I couldn't believe this, but we do it faster than any other company can do it to get you in the space and get you up and running. A lot of what I talked about earlier, I mentioned with some of our clients, including Amazon, It was sixty days that they were in the space.
John Santora:Mhmm. And I challenge anybody to have that same speed to market. It's cost, it's the commitment, the capital that we're willing to do, and yes, the integration with our technology is an important part of that. But some firms say, sorry, we don't want your technology, we want to put our own in. And we help them through that process as well.
Mark Bonner:So part of your job is this peer over the horizon. It's very difficult to do right now given where the state of the office market is, at least in The United States and certainly in Europe. What do you think is coming next for WeWork on that front? How big of a threat is the fragility of office globally right now to future expansion, future health, future stability for the company?
John Santora:So we are, depending on the market around the world, there's a recovery. Two years ago, if you read the headlines, who would want to own an office building in New York City? And in the last four weeks, there's probably 15 buildings that have traded in this city alone. The market in New York alone, 23, almost 24,000,000 square feet of new leases signed in the first nine months of the year, on track to be a record year. So the market is recovering and New York always comes back first and biggest, and we're seeing that in other markets around the world.
John Santora:We're seeing San Francisco bounce back. We're seeing Toronto is on fire right now. We don't have a single seat in Toronto, we've just taken a new lease down and are building it out now. London is on its way back, I was out there two or three weeks ago. So the markets are returning, but when I look out five years or seven years, I know I've been in this business long enough, there's a downturn coming.
John Santora:We don't know how steep it'll be, or whether it's five years or seven years, and worst case ten years, but just look at the last, look at the last fifteen or twenty years. Alright? Since the turn of the century, I'll go twenty five years, February, 02/1978 financial crisis, there was a blip in the teens there, and then you had COVID. So if you were in a long term lease at any point there, you you had to put your space out on a subleasing market. Right?
John Santora:And you had to write down your space. If you had a component, as I mentioned earlier, 20% or 30% of your portfolio is in flex, that's what you give up without having to write down that expense.
Mark Bonner:New York is an interesting case study for the office because even two or three years ago, even a few months ago, the headlines were really gloomy around the office market here. And as you all know, John, a lifetime New Yorker, what happens in New York can only happen in New York City. And also what happens in New York can reverberate around the world. Right? Does this office market being strong at the moment, although with some fragility underneath it, does this tell us something about everywhere else?
Mark Bonner:Or is New York still a very unique place on the planet when it comes to the office?
John Santora:Well, New York is a unique place. There's no question about it. And it will always so in a down market, it will not fall as hard as a lot of markets will. It will also be the first to bounce back, and that's what I was kinda indicating a moment ago. It is well on its way back, and the others are following.
John Santora:Part of what, you know, look, we we know that AI is driving it, is driving some of the markets, but look at the financial institutions where they are, their continued investment in in office, their continued growth from an employee base. Then you look at all the other services coming back. Look at the market in the last couple of weeks, all the reports for all the public companies, they're all strong. Earnings are strong. So yeah, there's uncertainty that makes people question what is my next step, when or if there's going to be a downturn, but the numbers are good across the board.
Mark Bonner:You know, the work from home movement is still very strong, Right? The return to office movement is also very strong, especially from the Fortune 500 companies who desperately want people back in the office. If you look at the hybrid statistics, it says that we've kind of stagnated in terms of how fast we're all going to go back to the office. But we're all not going to work from home either. I wonder if you think WeWork is uniquely positioned to capture that part of the market where I don't need the office five days a week, but maybe I need it two or three days a week.
Mark Bonner:And maybe I don't need my complete staff to come in every Monday, maybe I only need certain teams to come in on certain days. WeWork seems like that would be you'd be in a great position to capture that part of the market. Am I incorrect?
John Santora:Yeah. I think it's an important part of what we bring to any market. Right? So the ability to we're closer maybe to the train station than your headquarters or your main office is, or we're closer to a suburban market for you. But that ability for the small business to say, it's so, you know, we're gonna come to the office two or three days a week, and they can take the space that matches their needs.
John Santora:Right? And then they can grow a little bit if more and more people start to come to the office or shrink if they don't. My personal feeling on return to the office, and I've always been a five or six day week in the office, but I do think it settles out long term in four days. I think Fridays is always going to be a flex day for anybody. Come to the office, don't come to the office, work from home, work, you know, from somewhere else.
John Santora:But I do think that most firms will settle on at least four days.
Mark Bonner:And I think Jamie Dimon would agree with you. I mean, just this week, I think he opened up his $3,000,000,000 headquarters in Midtown, a cathedral of in person work. Is that the future of office or just an expensive way to reinvent what Flex already delivers?
John Santora:There's only a few firms in the world that can make a statement like JPMorgan did with that headquarters. And and look, it's a wonderful building. It's a commitment to New York. It's a commitment to office. It's a commitment to to their firm.
John Santora:So do I think that there are going to be a lot of people that will build that kind of headquarters? There will be some great headquarters built. There's some scheduled for Park Avenue, just up the block from the JPMorgan headquarters, and as you go around the world, there certainly are some really properties that make a statement on behalf of the owners, Salesforce Tower in San Francisco, right? A great space. We happen to have three floors in there, the view is spectacular, and the amenities, but I think there's a place for headquarters.
John Santora:And I think if you look at a corporate real estate, there is a place for headquarters that is your brand, that is your statement, But there's also a place for lease space, and then there's a place for flex. And that's the model, I think, a go forward basis.
Mark Bonner:So for the last few years, it's been hybrid, hybrid, hybrid. It's been the buzzword out there. But is anyone really doing it well in your eyes, John?
John Santora:You know what? There are a lot of firms that are successful with with a hybrid model, and and we see it within our spaces. Now, I was in Chicago, and while we have an occupancy of around 80% there, on Tuesday the activity was pretty good, on Wednesday it was very good, on Thursday you could see that you know, we're starting to fall off. So a lot of the firms in there were two or three days a week.
Mark Bonner:Everyone for the last few years, especially coming out of the pandemic, has been arguing about where people work. I wonder if the real question is why they need an office at all. And we can end on this track here. As AI reshapes teams and automation trims trims head count, how do you define office demand in that world? How do you define office?
Mark Bonner:How do you define office demand in this think this new world that we live
John Santora:there are in office, there are certain things that happen that don't happen on a a Zoom call or a Teams call without question. It's the conversation after the meeting. It's the conversation before the meeting. It's the conversation at the coffee bar. Those collisions, as you call them in the space, are where things happen, where ideas come about, where innovation comes about.
John Santora:And I can't see, and I don't know people out there in the audience or how you feel, Mark, but I wouldn't want my career to be getting up, leaving my bedroom, and going to sit in my kitchen, and getting on a computer. That's not my view of what life's all about, and how you're gonna grow your career, and what I want in life. And I think that people that grew up, the younger some of the younger people who who that's how they knew work during the pandemic are beginning to realize there's more out there. The relationships you build, and you can you can build them on a screen, but it's a lot easier doing this. Why are people sitting here?
John Santora:Right? They can watch us on a screen somewhere. Why are they walking around out there? It's it's innovation. It's creativity, and humans want human contact.
Mark Bonner:I I think I think respectfully, a lot of people would disagree. I I think there's a there's a different generation, perhaps millennials on down, who would say, I do crave place. I do crave places for commerce and for socializing and things of nature, but I also crave convenience. I crave not being able to have to sit in traffic or wait for that subway that never comes. I crave being with my family.
Mark Bonner:I crave saving money. I think they like both. Right? And really the jury is still out on this question, But I have real skepticism about the fact that we're going to go back five days a week. And I'm really skeptical of we need to be in an office five days a week in order to be successful or to climb the corporate ladder or to get a raise or to get a promotion.
Mark Bonner:And I and I think, you know, as someone who runs an all digital 300 person company across five countries Yeah. We've been fully remote since even before the pandemic, and we've made it work. And certainly, we travel our people a lot more than a lot of other companies do, and we're traveling them a lot more to this day because we want them to be in person. They're in this room today, one of our sister companies, But I also know that when I'm negotiating for someone to join us these days, they could be someone that's more senior in their career or mid career. Nine times out of 10, this question always comes up.
Mark Bonner:Are you gonna make me go back to the office? And I actually think for our business, it's a competitive advantage for us to say, no, we won't. We will ask you to come in occasionally. We will ask you to get on an airplane to parachute into a city to do a BizNell event or to cover the news as we do. But I I just I think the genie's out of the bottle on this to some degree.
John Santora:Look. As you said, or as I said, I think it ends up at four days a week. You think it's just a couple of days a week. I look at getting on that plane. That's the same as going to the office.
John Santora:Oh, sure. Right? You're getting on a plane, you're going to see somebody, you're going to see them face to face, that's your interaction. Right? And that's, to me, that's the purpose of why I go to an office and why I I look for people to be in our office.
John Santora:I also understand that life gets in the way, and I tell my teams this, that you have childcare, you have, you know, adult care, you have doctor's appointments, you have things that happen that you need to work from home, you have the freedom to do that. And I think you should always have those freedoms. I didn't have that growing up. Yeah. Right?
John Santora:I mean, we had to be in the office. That's what you were expected to be in the office, but where was my phone? My phone was in the office. Where are my files? I'm in my office.
John Santora:So it is a bit it is a different world today. I carry that all on my phone. Right? I can access anything, but I still believe that there is an important part of the of of the model of the growth and of your personal development that comes with being with people face to face. I So disagree with you on that.
Mark Bonner:Yep. Yeah. Sure. And friends can disagree. We're at Cretech.
Mark Bonner:Your predecessor said that WeWork was a technology company. You have said that WeWork is a real estate company. I think you've been proven correct. Right? You've been very successful in the comeback journey.
Mark Bonner:But let's talk about technology. Yeah. What factor does that play in day to day operations for WeWork? I think we're all familiar with the check-in process and all the other technology that WeWork has, and it's very powerful and it's been replicated across the industry. What are you excited about in the next few years with in terms of technology and your tech stack?
John Santora:So so we are I'd say that we are a real estate company that's technology enabled. And all firms, you know, are today or move are certainly moving in a direction that the technology enables your firm productive, to operate and be productive, right? I mean, we were the first and continue to be the ability to check-in. You go online with an app, you reserve an office, you reserve a conference room, you reserve a desk anywhere in the world, right? I mean, that's that's one of our important technologies.
John Santora:The ability to to walk into a conference room and just tie into that screen and hit a button and you're on your Zoom calls and all that. But that's to me, that's basic. Right? That's that's so when I look out over the next couple of years, that is basic. That's that's that we we all need to have whether you're in a WeWork office or you're in JPMorgan's headquarters or anywhere else.
John Santora:Where is the future going? Look, I mean there's AI all over the place, right? I get hit with 30 to 50 emails, LinkedIn messages, or phone calls a day about we have this product, we have this AI product, you know, we have this. First of all, our partnership, our ownership with Yorty. Yardi is building a whole bunch of a is is working on a whole bunch of AI initiatives that we're testing some of them as well.
John Santora:Of course, and everything for questions, if people wanna sign up for an all access pass or renew their, you know, renew their membership and all that. Handling questions around the spaces. But it's much more than that, right? That's the simple piece. The ability to do research and so forth is key.
John Santora:But we're walking slowly. And by the way, mean that's kind of where I am. Part of what this turnaround is about for WeWork, I'm very disciplined in our investment, very disciplined in taking a new space. Every deal, every major deal we sign up with a member is has to be profitable. It's also the way I'm approaching AI and I'm approaching technology going forward.
John Santora:There's gonna be some great things. We're gonna roll out some fabulous products over the next couple of years, but we're gonna do it when it's right at the right pace, and we're not gonna waste a whole bunch of money along the way.
Mark Bonner:Can you tease us conceptually on what some of that might be?
John Santora:I think it's it's different technology and ways you can use our space, the way our spaces can transform, how you access our spaces, and what's within them. And I think where our spaces are located. And when we get there, maybe I'll give you the exclusive on that to roll out. But there's gonna be some real creative things that'll come out of it. Call me.
John Santora:Check it
Mark Bonner:out of business now. Yeah. Let's talk about Gen Z just for a moment through the prism of technology. Gen Z, the most well educated, largest, most tech enabled generation is hitting the economy right now, the strongest economy in the world. Mhmm.
Mark Bonner:Their demands for technology are different than millennials before them and certainly baby boomers before us. How are you thinking through that? Do you have people on your team that are thinking through what does Gen Z want? What did these 20 people need from WeWork that perhaps someone my age or perhaps even an older generation may not necessarily need.
John Santora:Yeah, so I started a future of work group within WeWork, whereas different, as I said, I get 50 emails, LinkedIn messages a day with new technologies, new ways of working, new things to add to our spaces. So that's what that group is about, and they are the Gen Z. So it's going to them because what I look at and say, why would we have this in our spaces? They may look at it and say, we absolutely need it. And there's, you talk about the way they use technology is there's a level of impatience, right?
John Santora:It's got to be as fast as lightning. They've got be able to have it, right?
Mark Bonner:They're fickle and they'll move on.
John Santora:Yeah, exactly.
Mark Bonner:I mean, you know, even even for a company like BizNow, you know, they love us. They don't love us. And they move on to something else, then they come back. Is that is that something that you have to think through in terms of the the WeWork platform?
John Santora:We have to, and we have to, especially in the sign up process. Right? And when information is requested about, you know, I'm looking for x number of seats in this market. If our people and our systems are responding back within, you know, within minutes, they're on to the next one. You know?
John Santora:Mhmm. So so we need that everything that we build going forward, everything we have going forward has to be speed, consistency, and, you know, from that perspective.
Mark Bonner:You know, the the other thing too, and this is not this is not necessarily true just for Gen Z. I think it's true for probably your entire customer base, which is, you know, when WeWork first came out, it was very amenities rich. Right? Beer on tap, kombucha on tap, beanbag chairs, really cool design and layout. It had a vibe, a youthful vibe.
Mark Bonner:Office is in an amenities war. This $3,000,000,000 HQ that Jamie Dimon just built, that is part of the amenities war. That is a class double double a trophy office, maybe one of the most globally significant offices to open in the world in the last ten How to 20 do you navigate the amenities war, through the prism of WeWork?
John Santora:So we need to have we know we need to have amenities within our spaces. As I said, we're spending 80 to $100,000,000 a year in our spaces to upgrade them. That's in addition to the new spaces that we're building. We our our model works. We've tweaked it.
John Santora:I mean, you know, there's not as many pool tables around. The beer taps aren't here in The States. They are in other markets around the world for lots of reasons. Right? But it's all about convenience and amenities.
John Santora:We continue to look at what we should add to them, whether it's pilates classes in the morning or at night, where does the gym fit in, does the gym fit in within our space, should it be somewhere in a building, should we offer some kind of discount to the gym that's across the street. And we have lots of data, and I'm sure heads of real estate here have lots of data around that as to what their people want and use, and the same thing from our perspective. You can't just build everything because a lot of people don't want it. Walk into some of these amenities in these office buildings where people didn't use data and they have gyms. Well, you find out that, yeah, it's nice that you have this cheap gym in your building, but everybody wants to go to Equinox where all their buddies are.
John Santora:So nobody's in the gym and you just spent $8,000,000 and took out 10,000 square feet of an office building to put in the gym. You put in some fabulous restaurant in there that only the senior executives of the company can afford to go eat in, And you wonder why it's empty because they're still going to their place they go to see all their friends all the time. Right? So you have to look at the data. You have to understand what what your what our members want or what your tenants want.
John Santora:And we do that intensely.
Mark Bonner:Imagine it's very difficult to make a decision on something like that just because that affects your margin. And you're making a bet sometimes on a trend, a trend that may not be with us in three or four months' time. I look at pickleball as one of those things that could either stay with us much like a lot of other big sports, or it could fade away like racquetball. Ever heard of racquetball? Right?
John Santora:You know
Mark Bonner:what I mean? That's not your racquetball. Do you have a research and development arm within WeWork full of elves that are thinking about what are the next trends that are real trends and what are fake trends? Is that how you guys make decisions about what amenities matter?
John Santora:As I said, I have this this one group, but but that's what our leaders are doing around the world. They're looking at trends, they're feeding information in, our systems are capturing how our spaces get used. We also have, you know, we have our surveys that come in from our members, and part of that process is what are they looking for, what else do they need. But there is also a dollar component of that. How much do we spend, how much do we reinvest, and is it worth it?
Mark Bonner:Okay. We're going to go to questions in about two and a half minutes here. Got two more questions for you, John, before we get there. So please get your questions ready. If you had total freedom in capital, what's the moonshot for WeWork?
Mark Bonner:Global partner network? Is it some new product? Is it a platform that powers flex for everyone? How do you view this?
John Santora:So we already have our global partner network, we're rolling that out, and we'll continue to grow off of that. If I had an unlimited budget, boy, I think I think it has to do with how much technology then that's where I'd be testing the latest and greatest technology. Right? All the cool stuff that's going on. Some of the stuff you see out here.
John Santora:Some of the stuff you'll see at CSE in in Vegas at in in January. But look, right now, and with the capital dollars we have, it's upgrading the spaces we have. We're happy where we are. Our locations are great locations. Our spaces need to be upgraded in some cases.
John Santora:Could I use a little more technology? Could I use video conferencing in every conference room? Sure. But there's not a whole lot that I would change.
Mark Bonner:John, how often are you in a typical WeWork, let's call it a suburban location somewhere in America, where you're just there working. And what do you see when you look out into the main room of a WeWork? Like, what notes do you take to yourself as you observe your users?
John Santora:So, I love walking through our spaces. How often am I in it? So, I'd say it's at least twice a week, but it's probably more on average, because when I travel, it's, you know, it's for the full five days that I'm in the spaces. Excuse me. What do I see?
John Santora:I love going into some of our spaces in San Francisco, going to some of our spaces downtown here, where there's so many AI firms. We have two twenty AI firms in our spaces around the world. And you see them writing on the glass, right, and they're writing their formulas, and there's people on the other side that maybe are with their firm or with another firm, and they're making comments back. I love to see that interaction. I like to see what's happening in our community areas where, you know, where the coffee is and the food is, and I just sit back and watch and see how the interaction happens.
John Santora:And then I'll just go over and talk to somebody. Like if you were sitting over, you know, having a cup of coffee, I might just walk over and say, so what do you think about this space? Are you in any other WeWorks? Is this your home space? And just hear and get the feedback from people because there's nothing better than that instant feedback as to what's good and what's bad.
John Santora:Are they shocked when they realize that you're the CEO? Sometimes I don't even tell them who I am. Just kinda was on the phone today with a member who has sick who had six seats and they're leaving us, and you know, he flipped me a little note and he had a he had a little complaint as to why he was leaving. I picked up the phone and I called him. And he was like shocked.
John Santora:He said, you really care? I said, I do. So whether it's six people or 60 or 600, it matters to me why you're leaving because that means I could have done something better.
Mark Bonner:Okay. Final question before we go to the audience. When you look back on your tenure one day in the future, what do you hope will be said about your time at WeWork? Not just for coworking and flex and the comeback story, but for the broader office market. What do you hope your legacy will be?
John Santora:I'd like the legacy to be that I've left the company, I've passed the company on with a solid foundation of great talent, future talent, financially sound, and we've made an impact in those key markets around the world, and as we continue to look at our member roster, they are, some of the biggest and best firms in the world, but we still have those two and three person firms that are going to be the future Googles or Amazons or whatever. I think that model just works. That piece is just so important that we have all of that.
Mark Bonner:There's a microphone to my left, your right, if you're out in the audience. Any questions for WeWork CEO, John Santora?
John Santora:Yeah. It's it's gonna be hard to see because his lights are
Audience:Hello. Hi. I'm Isabel Raphaelian. We're the manufacturers of Topos, Sensoride, other consumer products. As an occupier, we did try the flex space solution for a small field sales team in the Midwest, and everything was working wonderful for us until the operator, not WeWork, another operator Yeah.
Audience:Decided to sell the building to a real estate developer. And we were essentially told, get out by November. So this caused not only a major distraction to the sales team, but a major scramble for me to try to find these people space, appropriate office space, in a matter of a couple of months. So what would you say to large companies like us who are willing to really look into the flex space model, but we need a guarantee that our people are not going to be disrupted just because somebody sells a building.
John Santora:What a great question, and it actually One of the things that I saw and continue to see is when WeWork went through its troubles and when we walked away or were able to negotiate out of a whole bunch of buildings, what the team did was hold the hands of those members and either place them in our other spaces or negotiate on their behalf with landlords for them to stay. And I thought that was just absolutely amazing. And that's how we retained a whole bunch of our members, and continued to bring members back that had been with us that had left. So, I would say, yes, it is a bit of a risk you take, but all the benefits you get from it, so is it worth that risk? Key is when you're with a brand that will continue to take care of you even if we're not in that market, and negotiate on your behalf and get you moved in somewhere else.
John Santora:But so, yeah, look, it's difficult, but I think that's important. It can happen the same way though when a building falls into receivership and continues through its problems that you have to move out, not because you're being thrown out, but you're not getting the services.
Audience:Thank you very much.
John Santora:You're welcome.
Audience:Hi. Thanks for the session. My name
Audience:is Joe Allen. I'm a professor healthy materials, and the technology over the real time indoor air quality monitoring.
Audience:So I'm curious where WeWork is in this movement towards healthy indoor air, not
Audience:just things that look great, and also applying that tech layer
John Santora:Yeah, thank you. First off, there's only a handful of companies that can do what they did within their space. I said it before, the cost of that most companies could never touch. But we continue to look at and upgrade, and that's part of that 80 to $100,000,000 in our upgrades, is to invest back in our systems, particularly in our air conditioning systems, our filtering systems, our water systems throughout our space. But it's a continued challenge to invest back into spaces like that.
Mark Bonner:It's a beautiful building, by the way.
John Santora:I ride my bike, buy it
Mark Bonner:every single day. Spectacular. Yeah, it is. Absolutely spectacular. Spectacular.
Mark Bonner:Other questions from the audience?
Audience:Oh. Hi, my name is Darlene Ho. I was the former head of Smart Buildings and Digital Workplace for WeWork.
John Santora:Yep. I still carry
Audience:my WeWork water bottle with me every day.
John Santora:Great.
Audience:So I have two questions for you. First question is, does WeWork still have a no meat policy? And second question, back when I led Smart Buildings where we were, we were known as a technology company. And I know now it's a real estate company powered by technology. But what is your commitment and priority for technology, smart buildings, healthy buildings, and were any of those plans actually implemented after the fall?
John Santora:So our client dinner the other night in Chicago was in the steakhouse, so that should answer that first question. And as far as the technology and continuing to invest in smart buildings, some of that is in place, you know that. We keep up what was in place. We're investing in it as we build out our new spaces, but again, this is a balance of how much we can spend, where we spend it, and what the ultimate outcome is. You know, if we went back to the question of if I had an unlimited budget, sure, absolutely, but you know, I've got to balance that.
John Santora:But some of it is still in place, we continue to invest in and maintain that.
Audience:And I do want to say thank you, John. You're doing an amazing job. I still firmly believe in the model.
John Santora:You. Thank you.
Audience:Hi, Larry Charlopp. I'm director of real estate for Roku. We are in several WeWork's and other providers. And one of the challenges we have in service provider offices in general is consistency of delivery. And again, as Darlene said, I commend you on the work that you've done with WeWork and the brand and trying to bring it back.
Audience:Even within the WeWork brand, there are corporate WeWork locations, there are franchise locations when you get outside The US, and there is a drastic experiential difference between a franchise and a corporate WeWork, which we experience as well. What are the plans to try to align that as you look to bring more companies into your enterprise offerings, who are looking for that consistency?
John Santora:Yeah, that's a challenge, and I'll tell you one of the things I did early on in the process is had already, WeWork had already spun off a couple into franchises, and the firm was going to spin off all our LATAM business, as well as a couple other markets around the world, and they immediately stopped that. I said, if we're going to be a global firm, it is hard enough to operate in Brazil and Colombia and Chile and Mexico when you actually own it, and you can drive that consistency. If you move it to a franchise, the ability to control that is so much harder. So, I am in that process of building strong relationships with our franchisees, and hoping that I can get that consistent model. But it's a bit of a challenge, but we have tied, so now we have a call every other Wednesday with our Indian operations, so that we're consistent in who they're working with, making sure that they talk, you know, making sure that we know what's happening there, what firms, firms we have obviously relationships with here.
John Santora:It's still a challenge, and we'll continue to work through that challenge. It's hard, and I apologize for that lack of consistency, but it is one of those things we continue to work on. Yes. I had an interesting conversation today about another client.
Mark Bonner:Okay. I think that's it. Well, John, thank you so much for a wonderful conversation.
John Santora:Mark, thank Thanks, everyone.